Hi
As asked by many people on this group, I had asked my batchmates the changes they wanted to
see in the dept. I am writing down their suggestions here. I have started the same among
2nd and 3rd yearites and shall post them soon very soon. By the way we are having the
inaugural meet of Electrical ENgg Society this 7th. May be I could bring out some points
that time as I guess almost all students and teachers of the dept. will be present at that
time.
A lot of people have been asking about the companies which didnt open for EE this year.
Well I have some bad news here. Most of the elctronic companies which came here had a very
rude kind of an attitude towards the EE students. Mostly they didnt open for us and when we
approached them and tried to convince them, they said that earlier they had taken EE guys
but there performance was not upto to the mark or whatever. We had this difficulty in
n-Videa, Mentor Graphics, Freescale, ST, Reliance Infocomm and Atrenta. ALl these are
reputed companies offering high packages but they simply didnt entertain us. "This company
is not for you" could be heard from their HR. Even Atrenta and Mentor which had earlier
taken students from EE had this opinion. And its not that the students are not good.
Whenever we had the opprtunity our students did do well. E.g. in Hughes and Samsung we had
the maximum selection in IT, 4 in both of them. In fact in Hughes, in the written we had 19
selection out of 40, while CS and ECE had just 5 each. After interview we had 4 selections,
CS and ECE 3 each. Most of our guys were asked during interview- u People are neither from
CS and ECE, why did u at all sit for this company??? I myself am facing this problem. I
have done many projects in the field of low power VLSI and microprocessors and also have
some publications. I was aiming for VLSI companies and have got a job with Wipro (VLSI),
but I now see no opportunity to get a better job in this field. I was waiting for ST and
Atrenta but they showed me the doors before I could even knock. Candidly spealing, I dont
know whats the solution to this. And its here that the CS and ECE people got ahead of us.
But I think this is a pretty serious problem and something ought to be done on this. This
often demoralizes us. It did me after ST and Freescale came and went away with many people
from EcE. I dont doubt the credentials of the EcE people but I believe we are equally good.
Anyways in spite of that we are doing pretty well and hopefully will record the best in IT
even this year.
The points are as follows-
1. It has been a long time since the department course structure has been reviewed while
the industry demands have seen a vast change. We all fourth yearites strongly feel that
there should be some course on communication/networking. And the courses on machines and
power systems can be lessened to some extent. In the IITs there is just one semester where
machines are taught but here it is taught all throughout the B.Tech, they should be there
no doubt for they are our core but a few can be replaced with some other useful courses.
2. It is shocking but true that the dept. doesn't have its own library while all others in
IT do. Some also suggested for subscription to journals and magazines.
3. We feel that there is also a need for a seminar/conference room for the dept. A few days
back our Head was speaking about its need but he said inspite of his arduous efforts he was
unable to set up one. Believe me, we were even declined to be given an LCD for our seminars
as the Head says that we will spoil it and should focuss on the conventional stuffs like
overhead projectors as they make us learn more than LCD projectors. But guess we have to
abide by such thoughts. They are out of control.
4. As already pointed out on this forum, contests like Prastuti are must to augment the
reputation of dept. This year we are going ahead with, hopefully in a larger scale and most
probably I will convene it, so will keep you people updated about it.
5. Of course the question of good labs with better infrastructure has always been there and
I dont know how long it will be there. All our labs are in dire states. Leave apart all
this, last year we faced the situation when a single breadboard was used by two labs and so
you had to wait of someone else was working on it. With it also comes the issue of a
computer lab and internet.
6. The issue of projects issued by the alumni was also discussed by some people here. And
then is there also about summer internships. Last year many good companies approach CS and
EcE for their internships like Syncata, Motorola, Mentor, Talisma but they werent for us.
We had only the conventional power plants to explore apart from some people using their own
contacts.
7. Then if possible organizing of seminars/workshops/guest lectures and visiting faculty
from industry to the institute.
All these problems I guess are known to all of us and have been interated again and again.
We need to take some initiatives to tackle them. What I feel is that we have groups of
about 5-6 people associated with each problem and they will exclusively work on that. These
groups will have their own team and constitution to work.
Looking forward to hearing from you people soon.
With warm regards
Rajat Harlalka, 20010417
Ph - *91-9839091988

Let's summarize.

So Rajat, your guys biggest ambition is that you want to be treated as ECE and CS people. That's not a departmental issue. It's basically a bargaining issue between you guys, TPO and the company. Anyways, you want a couple of more networking/courses to be able to be like CS and ECE. That's a sensible wanting. Although there is this underlying travesty that you (and probably most of EE guys) totally denounce the concenvtional side and want to become CS/ECE person. Problem similar to a scheduled caste person being treated badly and he wants to be become vaishyas/brahmins or whatever, but can't just by the basic definition of things.

Comparison with IITs is not valid here since they have a joint ECE+EE dept. The biggest solution to this problem of yours is also to merge EE and ECE depts as it's in IITs, in US and most of the places in the worl. But I don't think that universities are as open to mergers as companies are.

On a little pessimistic note and realistic note, you guys should also think of yourselves as like Mech, Chem or those branches. I'm sure they don't crib about this problem as EE guys do. You're not more similar to CS than to Mech anyways. So I would say, try to bargain with companies. Otherwise it's not department's fault.

Adding a couple communications/netwroking courses is a good idea though which we should talk about.

Not having a library is a good issue. We should talk about this.

Not having an LCD is a good issue. We can talk about it. WE can pitch in small amount of money and easily buy one for you guys. Dept chair's opinion that you guys will spoil it and overheads teach more is more than ridiculous.

Good labs with better infrasturcture. Let' get more specific here. Do you again want an EE lab to look like a CS lab here ?

Courses should be changes with time. True. But do you guys just want a couple of extra CS type courses for job point of view. Or are ya interested in total updating like including a nanotechnology course, or may be latest trends in machines and all. It's a serious issue.

Is that it ? What else ? Any other issues ? We haven't gotten a summarized list of 10 yet.

I actually fee a little sad about this. EE people just want to become CS/ECE and they can't since only a couple can changes branches. What can we do about this is the question. I don't blame them becasue India apparantly is only feeling good in the software industry. Not otherwise. But what can be done ? We should talk about this point most importantly.

Seminar room is a good issue but not a very important one. Those rooms G8 and all, can be equally usefl from a presentation point of view. LCD is more important issue.

Rajat, can you send another short summarized email of 10 problems with the dept. It seems depatment is better than you think. You just came out with 3-4 problems.

Let's hear from anshuman, aman, pankaj and others. Keep talking....

My last email was more of a understanding-the-problems-and questioning-the problems email. Let me pitch in some of my solutions to some of the problems rajat mention. And let's also hear from others about it.

If you have an LCD in the dept, you have to urge the chair to let you use it. We can call him and urge him too. He has to agree. If you want another one, we all can buy one easily.

You want projects from alumni. We can do it.

You want a computer lab with Internet. Most important wanting. I'm ready to help here in anyway from pitching money to other stuff (whatever that is)

Lectures from some visiting faculty or industry person is a good issue and commonplace here. You shoule ask the dept chair to do it more often. Does he disagree ? Probably he needs money for their travel and stay which he doesn't have. Is it a money issue ? We can help here too.

Accept that you're not ECE and CS first. So don't expect that somebody will change all your courses and make you look like a CS/ECE person. Merger is also an impossible solution. Having more optional courses and having a minor-in-CS kind of thing is more achievable.

Very well done, all of the points you mentioned really need
consideration from alumni and Profs. Here are some issues which I
would like to mention.
On the course structure I would like to add that don't try to change
the main stream of Electrical Engg. Department (probably including
one course will not be difficult but this demand will never stop), I
am also working in the EcE area and I can understand you view and I
would rather suggest to make course structure which is extended and
somehow connected to EcE and CS concepts (I think that can be a
starting point), which initially seems feasible and probably
professors become ready to hear. Because subjects like control theory
and Signal processing have very good application in CSE and EcE
domain e.g. in robotics and embedded systems respectively. As I
remember that we had some good courses related to control theory,
graph theory and electrical networks and if teachers are willing you
can get flavor of advanced topics.

Coming to the point of companies, it is really a big worry even if
student is good and willing to work still he is not getting any
chance because of Electrical Engineering. My suggestion will be to
find out the alumni working in these companies and request them to
contact, still it is difficult unless EE professors and TPO himself
try hard. Actually there should be a force from the Department and
some professor has to come out for this.

it will be nice to see some changes in the department, another last
kind of advice or need will be establishing a very good communication
between professors and alumni which is not the case. I know we will
come out with brilliant ideas and great solutions but finally all the
things stop at departmental level

. We are not asking to be called EcE or CS people because the fact is that we are not from CS and EcE. I only pointed out companies which have recruited earlier from EE here at IT-BHU or have recruited so from other institutes. There were other companies here which came and didnt open for us, e.g. Trilogy offering 7.5 lacs. Similar willbe will MS coming perhaps in late September. But it doesnt open for other branches except at any other place, so we are not vociferating that. What I belive is that if some company used to recruit earlier from EE and now doesnt, than its not a goodsign for us.

2. Coming to the question of sending 10 points, well Sumit I had a list around 12 with me. But I included only those which we felt were feasible, logical and urgent. May be its more with the job point of view coz thats one thing going in the minds of al fourth yearites right now.

3. By labs, I didnt mean it to be CS like labs. If Sumit meant control systems lab, then you are right, Sir. The control systems lab is in real bad shape. Similar is the case with networks lab and digital lab. Proper equipments are not there. Half the traditional wattmeters, voltmeters stand bad, while other places are using digital stuffs. In machine lab for exapmple, you dont have enough tachometers and if two batches need it then yoiu have to wait till the other is done.
And we dont say that things cannot go this way. It has done for us. We have almost got to our B.Tech and shall be soon out. But what the future has? What if the only tachometer also "Rests in Peace".

4. Again with change with regards to change of courses, again we dont demand we should be taught all the CS courses nor did we say that there should be an introduction of something like minors in CS to fulfill our "ambition of being like CS or EcE". But some thing like networking/communication is taught at good institutions to al branches. Atleast we can have some thing like this for our dept.

5. And if I am not wrong, earlier as well when the question was about campus and companies not opening for us, SUmit had pointed that we stop lamenting about this fact as we are not more similar to CS than to Mech anyways. But Sumit, We here believe on the contrary. We study DS, ALgorithms, Optimisation techniques and OS, which is taught not even to EcE people. We study Logic Design Theory, Micrprocesors, Analog and Digital, most of which are not covered in CS. No other branch can boast of such a wide variety of courses. So why are we taught such courses if we cannot pursue to have career in these courses. If a trical guys says he wants to specialise in Biotech, then its understandable that the dept cant be of much help inn that case.


We are sorry if we said something wrong here but we simply felt that way and no disrespect intended to any one through this mail. ANyway I feel it could be a start of some thing good. Lets keep our fingers crosses and this group alive...

Rajat

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Great to see some brains rattling with ideas!!!! I would urge Rajat to
take a print out of these discussions and post them in the lobby or a
common area. We will probably get more volunteers and many more ideas.
That translates into people who are not apathetic to the situation and
will have a specific point of view.

Rajat:
You have done good to come up with the 4th years point of contention.
I know that these issues have been iterated again and again by all the
batches. It is increasingly becoming important to distinguish between
the blacks and whites of the situation.

Firstly, you have to reconcile yourselves with the fact that you will
be remembered for eternity as EE graduates and not as EcE or CS grads.
PERIOD.

Secondly, do you want to get a job, or do you want to make a career
out of your education at IT-BHU?

If you can answer both these issues, you will begin to see that there
is much more you can do to reconcile these apparently different
issues. If I may be blunt on the issue, I see no reason why a tech
company like ST should even consider recruiting from the department.
Do you have the courses? Do you have the faculty? Do you have a prior
relevent intern experience? What projects have you been involved with?
Finally, can you supplement your theoretical knowledge with practical
experience?
A No to any one of these is an automatic disqualification.

To debate on this issue:

It is unfair on our part to expect to be treated at par with EcE/CS.
You may ask why? Simply because if some Mining graduates (for an
example's sake) do get placed with infy, they cannot go and claim that
they meet all the requirements of say Wipro! Similarly, you guys
cannot claim to meet all the requirements posed by ST/Freescale/ etc.
Specially because there is a gap between the courses offered in both
the departments. If there was no gap there would not be 2 different
departments. The point again is not to be disheartened by the facts,
but to face them strongly. What this means is that you have to compete
with the rest, even though the playing field may not be level.

It is not reasonable for us to expect the department to change the
academic routine in a single go. What that requires is a long term
vision to ensure that the courses will add value to the graduating
students. As Sumit said, do we need more of CS/EcE tyoe of courses or
can we supplement nanotechnology. How relevent is networking for an EE
grad? Do we even know if adding such courses is a cure for the
situation? What will then distinguish between EE and EcE? We cannot
just go with a proposal to merge 2 different departments. Our aim then
should be to make the authorities see the point in our argument and
convince them that the change is not only reflective of better job
opportunities, but also has a long term implication to it. There is
always an inertia to change, but that can only be overcome with
concentrated efforts.

To achieve any of this, you will have to come out of the shadow and
create an image of the department that yields the requisite results.
It might be a bit late for the current 4th year batch, but theres lot
to be done for the ones who just joined. Since you cannot go alone,
faculty support is essential. Again, since some professors might have
a really busy schedule, you might want to seek patronage from a select
few who can share your visions and devote some time.

As you rightly mentioned (Point 7) that visiting professors and guest
lectures are important. As a start try to organize these activities
under a student organization and include the departmental patronage.
Invite people from companies (get contacts from TPO) who come to
recruit you. Make them feel important and of course when they see such
enthusiasm in the community, they would be more open to recruiting
students from EE. The beauty of it all is that you would know the guys
at all these companies on a personal basis and that is a huge bonus.
Remember that it is hard work, but that is probably a good way out of
the situation.
I am willing to get you guys started on this, as I have had some
experience doing this myself. But since we already have a long list of
alumni well placed in the industry, I guess they will increasingly
come to the fore.

As a start however, you should begin organizing lecture series on
specific topics. I remember there were C classes long time back. You
should identify areas of mass appeal and students proficient in them
to deliver the lectures.

Regarding other points that you mentioned:

Library is a good idea and has been floated since time immemorial. As
a start, instead of selling your books for cheap money at the end of
the year, why dont you donate them to the EE society and start a
library. It would not need much funds either to initiate. In case
funding is a problem, the Alumni would come forward. I guess it still
doesnt cost more than Rs 5000 ($100) to get 2 cabinets for a start.
Journals I guess are widely available in the main and the central
library. Redundant subscription would be a drain on our meagre
resources.

LCD projectors is an issue. I can understand the concern of the
faculty because these projectors last for only 2000 hours before the
filament needs replacement. And it is expensive (approx. $250). So you
have to make good use of it. In case you feel there is an urgent need
for it, the alumni can pool into it as well. It should not be an
issue.

Good labs and infrastructure: A very essential part of our education.
Here is a plan: Seek alumni projects. Simulate them on test kits from
tech companies. Get the test kits in the name of the EE society
again. (If you go through the university path it may take a long time)
A greater degree of alumni interaction is involved here and needs
constant interaction. But if IBM-US can sponsor such projects at IIT
Kharagpur, there is no reason we cannot do that.

On a personal level, I see attitude issues here rather than anything
else. You guys need to make the best of the situation you are in. You
are lucky to have a forum like this in place and it is upto you to
utilize it to the best possible extent. you might not be successful
overnight, but the experience is worth the grind.
Please do circulate this to all the batches.

Even if you disagree with me, lets not stop here. Lets hear your
opinions on the issue and identify the goals we want to reach by the
time you guys leave. More importantly lets put a team in place to act
even when this current batch passes the baton to a new one.

Sumit Ahuja rightly said that we need to talk to professors as well. I
am not sure how many professors are a part of the group. It would be a
good idea if Rajat can let us know the contact information about
1. Head of the department.
2. EE Society President.
3. IEE Student's Chapter co-ordinator
4. IEEE Students Chapter co-ordinator